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I’ve purchased grade II listed property
Good Afternoon All
I am going to sound very naive, vague and unknowledgeable about this subject, which I very much am we have been to view a grade II listed property that we have fallen in love with.
What does this mean, I have looked at the heritage website where the property is listed and has details of some of the remarkable features. Is it only these features that are listed on their site that are covered by the listing, or the whole property, and to what extent can we update?
Obviously we want to maintain all of the original features but would like to drag the electrics and heating into this century.
Look forward to reading all of your knowledgeable comments
Thank you
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12 Replies
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Rule 1. The whole thing is listed, including curtilage.
People often swing one of two extreme ways with listed buildings; apply for LBC for everything, or plough on without consent for anything.
You can do a fair bit without consent, more than many would think, but knowing where that line is is the skill.
Best approach is assume you need LBC for everything, but get an experienced surveyor / architect / PM / builder to guide you. COs are already overloaded, I like to filter out what I know is OK and only bother them with what is necessary. If we apply for permission for absolutely everything, including work we are permitted to do, the system will grind to a halt.
But that judgement does need experience.
Where abouts are you in the country?
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You might find this recorded session useful. The presenter is a conservation officer and discusses what you can and can’t do with a listed property:
https://www.carringtonlime.co.uk/event-details/listed-buildings-myths-repairs-alterations-4
carringtonlime.co.uk
Listed Buildings - Myths, repairs & alterations | carringtonlime
PRE-RECORDED SESSION: A 1 hour online session that will demystify listed building requirements
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All good advice and links already… I’ll just add that the garden/grounds/outbuildings are also listed as part of the curtilage… unless you can prove they are post 1948 and prior to the listing date (after the listing date alterations/additions should have permissions like anything else…
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The best advice is that if you can see yourselves living happily in this house without making structural changes (knocking through rooms, building extensions etc) then sorting out the services shouldn’t present huge problems. Conservation officers are usually sympathetic to well thought out improvements.
Every part of the structure is covered by the listing, (and so are buildings and structures in the same ownership nearby), but that doesn’t mean you can’t sort the wiring, plumbing etc. you will just need agreement from the CO that your plans are not destructive or damaging.
If you love it, go for it!
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Depending on the mindset of who you will be dealing with, is the main constraint
If you are happy with the building as is, no extension, no removing walls inside and not wanting to make any alterations all should be fine
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Before you go any further – make sure you do your own due diligence and check for permissions for any work done (LBC – listed building consent), and cross check those with what you know about the house and any other recent works.
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The list description which is found on the Historic England website is literally a short description. It isn’t intended to be a summary of everything that is of special interest. In most cases, the surveyor who wrote the list description will not have had internal access as they have no right of entry when they compile the list. That doesn’t mean that the interior is of no value. On the contrary, the whole of the building is listed, inside and out.
The ‘curtilage’ is actually a legal definition and causes much confusion, even among heritage professionals. What is ‘curtilage’ is interpreted by the planning authority and there is no one strict definition applicable. Instead there a series of tests – too complicated to go into here – and even Historic England guidance on curtilage is not reliable and not endorsed by the IHBC.
Some planning authorities ask for an application for Listed Building Consent for plumbing works and electrical works but that tends to be the exception. We don’t ask for that where i work unless the building is grade I or grade II* .
Please check with the Conservation Officer if in doubt. A good website is the IHBC.
It is aimed at professionals but has useful information and you will be able to find accredited heritage professionals on the site if you need some sound advice going forward.
ihbc.org.uk
Welcome to the Institute of Historic Building Conservation (IHBC)
The IHBC is the professional body for building conservation practitioners and historic environment experts working in England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, with connections to the Republic of Ireland.
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We’re lucky, we have a great Conservation Officer. If in doubt we email with all the relevant info and he tells us whether we need it or not and why. Usually within a couple of days. If we need LBC then he’s happy to have a conversation where we discuss our thinking and he makes his points and we find a way through. He was the first person we invited round when we bought it ( 5 days in) and we’ve maintained a constant dialogue. We even rang him before we put in an offer and he was helpful and put our minds at rest about his approach. His job is to protect our house against mindlessness. We respect that and now he knows how much we respect the house there’s a mutual understanding. As this is our final home we keep all our correspondence with him for our children when they sell it to evidence the changes (Daughter in mortgages advice). If you are worried talk to them now sooner rather than later, it may allay your fears. We have been allowed to make some quite significant changes to make it suitable for 21st C living but never attempted to modernise away its history. We’ve never used an architect or surveyor and have done it all ourselves. If you love it go for it.
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The whole building inside and out is listed, not just the descriptive features mentioned. If your work alters the historic fabric or affects it’s special character you will need listed building consent for the works. Look at the wireless radio controlled light switches to minimise chasing out channels in old walls. I had these installed. Or you can use service mounted conduit instead. .
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You didn’t ask this, but if it’s your first rodeo with listed properties then I hope you won’t mind me adding a couple of other things to be aware of.
1/ check for any and all work that has been done since the listing, as you will become legally responsible for remedying it if it’s been done with the appropriate consents. This can be tricky, so start on the planning portal and looking at every historic planning and LBc application that’s been made for the house. Also tell your surveyor this is important to you and for them to alert you to any structural or cosmetic changes that look modern to them. Typical things are fireplace removal, windows being swapped to double glazed and/or UPVC, extensions, Rooflights etc. It doesn’t have to be a dealbreaker if there have been, but you need to take real advice on the likelihood of being asked to reverse them, and the cost of doing so if you were made to.
2/ general costs.
A/Upkeep on older buildings is generally higher. Yes it varies by property but typically heritage qualified/experienced trades are in far shorter supply, and charge more given their experience etc. Heritage materials are also typically dearer.
B/ running costs. Heating will typically cost more. Yes it varies on the building and the occupants desire to be warm-warm, but older building typically less well insulated and often running on much older heating technologies. The heat loss on an older building ‘can’ sometimes prevent/limit the effectiveness of heat pumps, and similarly planning/listed building consent can limit your ability to install tech like solar.
C/ insurance will likely cost significantly more. Yes it varies by building, but given A/ and often (but not always) the obligation to rebuild what was there (in the event of a significant, but not total, loss), the rebuild cost of listed buildings can often vastly outstrip the purchase price.
We do love ours, but the wrong ones can be real money pits…
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To give you an idea of costs involved it cost our neighbour twice as much and took 3 times as long to have the exactly the same replacement wood windows from the same company fitted as us because his was G2 listed and ours isn’t.
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Thank you for all your comments, they have all made very interesting reading and welcome any more tips if you think of them. We have definitely fallen in love with the house, and do not intend to change it in any way except updating the kitchen, bathrooms, heating and electrics, all sympathetically of course. We do not intend to extend or knock walls out, just give it all a bit of a polish so to speak and treat ourselves to some thick warm socks and lots of throws thank you once again, all very much appreciated.
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