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Concerns about our loft conversion….
Concerns about our loft conversion….
My builder seems like a genuine person which is the main reason we chose him over cheaper quotes but we’re ending completion of the loft conversation there are a few issues which I outline below. I also have a few questions and guidance from this group of 112k members… I also hope this helps members of this forum planning their own works. Here goes!
1) Geometry issues: The velux window near the party wall is slanted and not square. With a laser level you can see how off it is. It looks horrible to me. The angles where the rafters meet the ridge are different at the party wall when compared to the gable end. The dwarf wall is slightly bellied and also slanting (as per pic). The builder says its minimal and picky… and that the plasterer will sort it. I’m not happy though. I’ve had to change our LED design to now not go around the reveals to highlight the problem. See pics.
2) Quality concerns: I’ve paid for shell only and done most internals myself (such as boarding). During the build I’ve been concerned with quality as veluxes started leaking at day 1, the flat roof had dips under the windows where water was pooling, there were rips in new vapour barrier and not all rafters were replaced (contributing to the bad geometry now). During boarding I’ve found things not level, square or ‘done right’ in my mind. I told him at the start I didn’t want squeeky floors and things loose yet he is here today trying to fix the flooring plus loose spindles etc… some of this these issues the builder has sorted and some he has not. This aside, some other aspects of the job we are happy with and he has done a few small extras gere and there.
3) Delays: The shell was due to be completed mid-September but we did add on a re-tiling (+ re batten/felt) of the front elevation and the side extension of the house in fairness – so lets say it should have been done by October. We are here at the end of January and the re-tiling of some parts of the extension is still pending (4 months on). Delays were primarily due to the usual weather etc but also the brickies messing the contractor around, him ordering the wrong veluxes, waiting for materials/scaffolders and a host of other personal issues the builder has had. These involve his elderly mother, his new land purchase, moving home his infant son… hospitals, car homes, doctors etc. I have been extremely patient up to now even when he has gone weeks not returning my calls (even with a text) and a handful of times saying he will be there first thing and just not turning up at all. I do trust he has alot of issues with his Mother which I really do feel for – but ‘his problems’ have become ‘our problems’ which isn’t fair. Our plans for Christmas and New Year were badly impacted… the house was a mess, there was rubbish left outside, the garage was leaking, there was concrete spilled on our drive and all sorts. Our rooms are full of old storage that needs to go back in the eaves once jobs are finished. The builder has done a few extras like boarding out the eaves fully.
4) Design Change: I also had my original design drawn up by my architect using x5 huge steels for the ridge, a post, x2 at the party wall etc… and at the start the builder changed the design (re-drawing at his expense) which came back using mostly wooden beams instead. He claimed the plans didn’t work and we ultimately trusted that view despite the architect disagreeing. There were building control issues with beams being sat on the active side of the chimney (sat on a ledge) which eventually the builder resolved and had to be agreed with the structural engineer etc. There was a dispute over a redundant chimney stack (which we wanted removed in our original plan) which he later agreed to sort out and remove / supporting with a steel… and he did a good job on that.
5) Behaviours: In summary, the builder seems genuine and is a kind guy… but by his own admission some of his workers weren’t the same… he told me himself that some of them were bad characters, on various drugs (green stuff, white stuff etc) and when I saw some of the labourers with no teeth – it made me wonder do these guys actually give a sh*t about our home and can I trust them walking around it? One put a hole in our 1st floor bedroom ceiling which I want repairing properly – when the builder is today using decorators caulk.
Questions for you guys:
A) Am I being unreasonable or too picky here, generally? By nature, as you can tell – I am quite Technical and am a fairly competent/educated DIY enthusiast.
B) Can you see the geometry problems? Can they be resolved? Are they ‘normal in a semi from the 50s’ as the builder is suggesting? What can I do about it?
C) Around £4k is owed I think and the last thing I want to do is make another person feel unhappy by keeping some of this back to get certain things done right / to compensate.
D) Worst case, on completion, I may add a contractual note to say that the roof is warranted for X years and that items like leaky veluxes, cracks etc will be guaranteed for an amount of time… What is a reasonable guarantee time to propose? I say this because all trust is lost now unfortunately from my end.. word is bond to me. For example when someone says they’ll definately be there (and you change your plans to accommodate it) and they ‘no show’ – multiple times… then it makes me feel like a mug… especially having to write this story to a facebook group too. On the plus side, feels like much needed therapy.
Thanks to those who have listened to my remblings and those who will respond to me (positively or negatively).
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18 Replies
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Most of those problems are coming from the pre existing rafters.
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Thats a terrible job & finish, I understand they might of had some problems but that shouldn’t effect the project. Tbh I would get someone else to finish it! Im a builder myself they sound a bit out of their depth judging by the problems
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I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. It’s not uncommon for the original roof to be bowed, I’ve jacked them up if they have been really bad. It’s not always possible to get everything level and square on an old roof.
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Architects often draw things that can’t be built and lack actual practical building experience
Many trades smoke blow / do coke and so on. Doesn’t necessarily stop them doing their day job. I mean for example find me a painter that can paint sober ? Or a scaffolder who isn’t on a tag ?
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had a plasterer to do some work for me after hours of his employed work, never seen anyone so drunk, was drunk when he arrived, drunk 8 cans of Stella in the three hours he was there, was falling of the ladder, but honestly the work was perfect and all the coving he cut, was by eye over his leg. It was like a stage show.
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very true about the substances and I get it… just that one of them stopped turning up and took money from the builder -> delaying my job. Another didn’t properly put glue between the flooring (IMO) which is why it all squeeks… another kept bothering me for separate money because my builder took his tools and tool belt which he left at my house (and non of us could reach my builder)… and it was Christmas and he needed the money… I felt bad so paid him. Another decided it was ok to expanding foam a verge and then fill it with a thin layer of mortar…
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Your not going to be able to tell 100% till plastered and a good plaster will be able to bead out to a degree
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That should’ve had a complete reroof really, the rafters and purlins are way out. Doing any interior finishing on a pitched roof if thats not flat consistent angles is nigh on impossible
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There limitations to what you can achieve with existing structure
When your setting out your velux openings you don’t have the luxury of a throwing a laser on from the inside even the your going of existing structure so you’ll have compromises
Its easy at the boarding stage to start nitpicking over 5 or 10 mm that’s never going to be seen after plaster
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Did they install new rafters or are these the existing old 4×2 roof
Looks like old wonky roof stayed in place , super quilt over and slap boom
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this is a pic mate where you can see some existing rafters… also I did all the insulation and superquilt… and I did it really good to expanding foam any gaps and spent £150 in aluminium tape lol
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The excuses playbook seems to be widely used. My roofer seems to be the unluckiest man in the world. In 4 months his Dad died, his van broke down 3 times, he was ill, his son was ill, the shop he needed wasn’t open, his mate went to the wrong address, the shop didn’t have the materials, and the generally ignoring messages for weeks. He now has an inoperable tumour, which, if a lie, is taking it to the next level.
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Rafters over spanned, rafters not doubled around velux windows or not adequate size, rafter structural design not adequate.
Your roof is slowly collapsing and requires rebuilding before it pushes the exterior walls out below.
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The loft has taken way too long and your fawning nature means you want to see the best in people and be the understanding one.
Tell the builder to leave you and your project alone.
He’s had every opportunity to do it, but he hasn’t. That’s not your problem. He’s not your mate or dependent.
You’ve paid him to work and he did not do it. That’s it.
Stop messing about. Tell him “no thanks” and take a hold of your project.
You will need to get people in and it will be a faff. Sorry. That’s the only way.
Keep going , you will get there, stay strong.
Good luck
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Im a builder and think this job could be better but not the end of the world.
If you say to the plaster if hes good at his job he can use bonding first to take out most of the issues before skimming. It will never be perfect but will only be noticed by yourself and anyone looking at the room won’t notice especially if painted all in the same colour
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Why didn’t you pack the timbers out before boarding. You have to put up with bowed existing rafters, but you square them with firings and packing out straight
Plus the boarding on the ridge is shocking..one side is in to the board and the other is over.
Don’t wait for it to be plastered find a decent chippy/boarder to square it all up by packing and trimming
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Horrible job!!! but these things happen, when the client gets involved in the building process! Bad builder end of story
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Thanks but what is meant by “these things happen when the client gets involved”… I just paid for the shell admits not right in my view??
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